Comments on: Thief: Deadly Shadows /2008-reviews/394/thief-deadly-shadows/ Spotlight's Game Reviews Tue, 11 Oct 2011 09:45:55 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: colonel2link /2008-reviews/394/thief-deadly-shadows/comment-page-1/#comment-6015 colonel2link Sun, 05 Dec 2010 17:30:06 +0000 /2008/03/10/thief-deadly-shadows/#comment-6015 I have played Doom 3 (which is beside the point). At least in Doom you're fighting demons and the devil, not sacrificing bodies to them. I have played Doom 3 (which is beside the point). At least in Doom you're fighting demons and the devil, not sacrificing bodies to them.

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By: Acid /2008-reviews/394/thief-deadly-shadows/comment-page-1/#comment-6012 Acid Fri, 03 Dec 2010 17:23:44 +0000 /2008/03/10/thief-deadly-shadows/#comment-6012 If you thought Thief: Deadly Shadows was bad when it comes to occult content, then you obviously haven't played Doom 3 If you thought Thief: Deadly Shadows was bad when it comes to occult content, then you obviously haven't played Doom 3

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By: DanielSievr /2008-reviews/394/thief-deadly-shadows/comment-page-1/#comment-5575 DanielSievr Wed, 18 Aug 2010 05:36:08 +0000 /2008/03/10/thief-deadly-shadows/#comment-5575 Well. I can't really defend this game based on gameplay terms, as I agree with the others here who are familiar with the other games in the series which are far better. But I do love the fantasy world that the game inhabits, which again is portrayed much more richly and thoughtfully in the first two versions. I find it interesting that the reviewer thought that the Hammerites are "poking fun" and "Christians". I would say, rather, that the Hammerites are specifically a reference to the darkest aspects of, very specifically, the Catholic church during the Middle Ages. They are clearly portrayed as hardened fanatics who use the strength of ascetic dogmatism, political machinations, and physical violence to spread their Word, all the while obsessed with building giant and claustrophobically dark cathedrals. This is more prevalent in the first two games, actually; in the third games the Hammers are much more toned down, to the point where it seems perfectly believable that that might be a real religion in our world (if it wasn't believable before). You also mention the Pagans as being portrayed in a better light that the Hammers, but this is I think due to your own sensitivity on the issue. In the first Thief game, the pagans were the main enemies and were portrayed in in a very dark light; there were, in fact, no human pagans. They were all twisted humanoid monsters or wild animals, a deranged cult that had as much to do with violent torture as it did with nature. The end of the game has you killing (or at least debilitating) the god of the forest. The second game of the series focused on a "protestant" faction of the Hammerites that had broken away from the main doctrine, and who was devouring the world with machinery to the detriment of all life. This game, the third in the series, was meant to thematically balance the first two while Garret attempts to find balance in his own life. So, you have the choice to either befriend the Hammerites or the Pagans--or both--as much as you want. The Hammers are in fact barely present in this game compared to the previous iterations, and their presence here is almost solely devoted to standing around in their churches and chatting. In terms of being offended by their presentation, it seems like what's bothered you might be the mere portrayal at all of a Christian-like group that is not actually Christian. Also, it's a hammer. It is shaped exactly like the hammers the Hammerites actually carry. It's a sledgehammer; sledgehammers are symmetrical. Which is not to say that the allusion to the cross is not entirely intentional. However, none of the factions in the game world was meant to satirize or to literally represent real-life groups of people. They took the tone and methods of some historical groups that had an interesting seed, and wove them into the story to create something original. Every time I play one of the first two Thief games I realize I have forgotten how interesting and intelligent the quotes are, supposedly coming from the books and scrolls of the Hammerites, Keepers, and Pagans. They are certainly not just plundered from the Bible, but are in fact quite original. They each represent a very different view of the world, and none of them are entirely evil or wrong. The whole point is that you, Garret, stand as a neutral entity outside of all these warring ideologies, enjoying the freedom that is possible in a life without rules. It's not advocating anything, not even Garret; it's just a very interesting world. Well. I can't really defend this game based on gameplay terms, as I agree with the others here who are familiar with the other games in the series which are far better. But I do love the fantasy world that the game inhabits, which again is portrayed much more richly and thoughtfully in the first two versions.

I find it interesting that the reviewer thought that the Hammerites are "poking fun" and "Christians". I would say, rather, that the Hammerites are specifically a reference to the darkest aspects of, very specifically, the Catholic church during the Middle Ages. They are clearly portrayed as hardened fanatics who use the strength of ascetic dogmatism, political machinations, and physical violence to spread their Word, all the while obsessed with building giant and claustrophobically dark cathedrals. This is more prevalent in the first two games, actually; in the third games the Hammers are much more toned down, to the point where it seems perfectly believable that that might be a real religion in our world (if it wasn't believable before). You also mention the Pagans as being portrayed in a better light that the Hammers, but this is I think due to your own sensitivity on the issue. In the first Thief game, the pagans were the main enemies and were portrayed in in a very dark light; there were, in fact, no human pagans. They were all twisted humanoid monsters or wild animals, a deranged cult that had as much to do with violent torture as it did with nature. The end of the game has you killing (or at least debilitating) the god of the forest. The second game of the series focused on a "protestant" faction of the Hammerites that had broken away from the main doctrine, and who was devouring the world with machinery to the detriment of all life.

This game, the third in the series, was meant to thematically balance the first two while Garret attempts to find balance in his own life. So, you have the choice to either befriend the Hammerites or the Pagans–or both–as much as you want. The Hammers are in fact barely present in this game compared to the previous iterations, and their presence here is almost solely devoted to standing around in their churches and chatting. In terms of being offended by their presentation, it seems like what's bothered you might be the mere portrayal at all of a Christian-like group that is not actually Christian. Also, it's a hammer. It is shaped exactly like the hammers the Hammerites actually carry. It's a sledgehammer; sledgehammers are symmetrical. Which is not to say that the allusion to the cross is not entirely intentional.

However, none of the factions in the game world was meant to satirize or to literally represent real-life groups of people. They took the tone and methods of some historical groups that had an interesting seed, and wove them into the story to create something original. Every time I play one of the first two Thief games I realize I have forgotten how interesting and intelligent the quotes are, supposedly coming from the books and scrolls of the Hammerites, Keepers, and Pagans. They are certainly not just plundered from the Bible, but are in fact quite original. They each represent a very different view of the world, and none of them are entirely evil or wrong. The whole point is that you, Garret, stand as a neutral entity outside of all these warring ideologies, enjoying the freedom that is possible in a life without rules. It's not advocating anything, not even Garret; it's just a very interesting world.

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By: Eagle4Delta /2008-reviews/394/thief-deadly-shadows/comment-page-1/#comment-4684 Eagle4Delta Wed, 24 Feb 2010 23:41:33 +0000 /2008/03/10/thief-deadly-shadows/#comment-4684 Good to read this. To bad i did finish the game. I did had my doubts about the occult content but i realy liked the stealth and mid-age time this game plays in. I wish i didnt finish the game cause there are some freaking situations you'll encounter. Strange though i didnt saw the builders the way Colonel link did. So for those who want to know how it ends: by the end you'll have a child but there's no woman involved. This is shown in a movie of a couple of seconds. So no need to continue this game cause this wont add anything good to yourself. Good to read this. To bad i did finish the game. I did had my doubts about the occult content but i realy liked the stealth and mid-age time this game plays in. I wish i didnt finish the game cause there are some freaking situations you'll encounter. Strange though i didnt saw the builders the way Colonel link did. So for those who want to know how it ends: by the end you'll have a child but there's no woman involved. This is shown in a movie of a couple of seconds. So no need to continue this game cause this wont add anything good to yourself.

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By: Bob /2008-reviews/394/thief-deadly-shadows/comment-page-1/#comment-4411 Bob Thu, 31 Dec 2009 19:07:18 +0000 /2008/03/10/thief-deadly-shadows/#comment-4411 The first mission was interesting but extremely hard after it just got dumb and there were zombies and I died and never played it again because reading ahead it was all about fighting zombies which is not anything to do with being a thief. The first mission was interesting but extremely hard after it just got dumb and there were zombies and I died and never played it again because reading ahead it was all about fighting zombies which is not anything to do with being a thief.

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By: stealthfreek78 /2008-reviews/394/thief-deadly-shadows/comment-page-1/#comment-3157 stealthfreek78 Thu, 23 Jul 2009 16:47:26 +0000 /2008/03/10/thief-deadly-shadows/#comment-3157 I have to say that this game does not live up to the thief seres...many of the levels have boring or uninspired designs, and the game is ruined by almost every level having some form of undead lurking in the shadows. This may not bother you if you like scary games. But for me at least, (I don't enjoy horror games) it ruined the game. For people like me, I would recommend buying Thief: the Metal Age or waiting for Thief 4 to come out. I have to say that this game does not live up to the thief seres…many of the levels have boring or uninspired designs, and the game is ruined by almost every level having some form of undead lurking in the shadows. This may not bother you if you like scary games. But for me at least, (I don’t enjoy horror games) it ruined the game. For people like me, I would recommend buying Thief: the Metal Age or waiting for Thief 4 to come out.

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By: thedaver /2008-reviews/394/thief-deadly-shadows/comment-page-1/#comment-3156 thedaver Thu, 23 Jul 2009 16:41:00 +0000 /2008/03/10/thief-deadly-shadows/#comment-3156 this game isn't anti-christian...its anti-religion this game isn’t anti-christian…its anti-religion

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By: thedaver /2008-reviews/394/thief-deadly-shadows/comment-page-1/#comment-3154 thedaver Thu, 23 Jul 2009 16:40:15 +0000 /2008/03/10/thief-deadly-shadows/#comment-3154 You might think that a game titled "Thief" would just be about breaking and entering, stealing, then getting out of there....thats what I thought. Then about 2/3 into the game it turns into the horror genre by setting loose tons of various undead who would just love to suck your brains out. I found myself sneaking around a zombe infested ship, a haunted orphanage, and other nasty places....yeah so if you don't like scary games I wouldn't recemend any of the Thief games. You might think that a game titled “Thief” would just be about breaking and entering, stealing, then getting out of there….thats what I thought. Then about 2/3 into the game it turns into the horror genre by setting loose tons of various undead who would just love to suck your brains out. I found myself sneaking around a zombe infested ship, a haunted orphanage, and other nasty places….yeah so if you don’t like scary games I wouldn’t recemend any of the Thief games.

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By: Deus est lux /2008-reviews/394/thief-deadly-shadows/comment-page-1/#comment-2247 Deus est lux Sun, 15 Mar 2009 18:54:00 +0000 /2008/03/10/thief-deadly-shadows/#comment-2247 Let's be straight: I cannot understand the zelotic view on a game like Thief. It's pure fantasy - probably with some references to darker times in our history (is not all we build with our hands or we think with our minds referential to other times and other thoughts?). I am a student of history and I know times, when people like the Hammers were running around with crosses instead of hammers on their clothes. They were certainly no Christians, they were crusaders. Or witchhunters. Or inquisitors. The Hammerites refer, if they do, to those and not at all to true and peaceful Christians. Or do you see yourself linked to such radicalistic fanatics like the Hammerites? And why should I as feel attacked by a game that doesn't even pretend to be more than entertainment? It's no blasphemy of some kind, and it's certainly not meant to mock Christianity. But for the game, I have to admit that it's not as fantastic as the two first parts. I played it through tough. Let’s be straight: I cannot understand the zelotic view on a game like Thief. It’s pure fantasy – probably with some references to darker times in our history (is not all we build with our hands or we think with our minds referential to other times and other thoughts?). I am a student of history and I know times, when people like the Hammers were running around with crosses instead of hammers on their clothes. They were certainly no Christians, they were crusaders. Or witchhunters. Or inquisitors. The Hammerites refer, if they do, to those and not at all to true and peaceful Christians. Or do you see yourself linked to such radicalistic fanatics like the Hammerites?
And why should I as feel attacked by a game that doesn’t even pretend to be more than entertainment? It’s no blasphemy of some kind, and it’s certainly not meant to mock Christianity.
But for the game, I have to admit that it’s not as fantastic as the two first parts. I played it through tough.

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By: Colonel Link /2008-reviews/394/thief-deadly-shadows/comment-page-1/#comment-1503 Colonel Link Tue, 14 Oct 2008 19:05:15 +0000 /2008/03/10/thief-deadly-shadows/#comment-1503 @<a href="#comment-1499" rel="nofollow">Kenny</a>: I have no problem with "fantasy" religions, because they don't represent real religions. The Hammerites and Pagans aren't "common book religions" though, as they directly reference Christianity and Paganism. And the blood sacrifice thing: While you don't have to kill anyone, I still don't think it's right to drag a dead body onto an altar and stab it until it bleeds. All of the content aside, the game isn't even worth the price gameplay wise, so there is no reason to consider it. @Kenny: I have no problem with “fantasy” religions, because they don’t represent real religions. The Hammerites and Pagans aren’t “common book religions” though, as they directly reference Christianity and Paganism. And the blood sacrifice thing: While you don’t have to kill anyone, I still don’t think it’s right to drag a dead body onto an altar and stab it until it bleeds.
All of the content aside, the game isn’t even worth the price gameplay wise, so there is no reason to consider it.

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